Поддержка Вид

LiveInternetLiveInternet

сменить

Авось из (+ сутки) дневников

Ayn Rand The Fountainhead

+ в цитатник

Cообщение скрыто для удобства комментирования.
Прочитать сообщение

Комментировать

« Пред. запись — К дневнику — След. запись »

Страницы: [1] [Новые]

Alpine обратиться по имени Воскресенье, 01 Августа 2004 г. 07:32 (ссылка)

"Dominique, it's so abnormal to fel so strongly about anything."
"That's the only wat I can feel. Or not at all."
"Dominique, my dear," he said, with earnest, sincere concern, "I wish I'd be your father. What kind of a tradegy did you have in your childhood?"
"Why, none at all. I had a wonderful childhood. Free and peaceful and not bothered too much with anybody. Well, yes, I did feel bored very often. But I'm used to that."
**************************************************************

Random wonderful quotes and excerpts...

Dominique turned to Keating with a glance so gentle taht it could mean nothing but contempt.

She had never before considered [Keating's] presence important enough to require silence.

"Dominique, will you marry me?"
"Peter, if I ever want to punish myself for something terrible, if I ever want to punish myself digustingly -- I'll marry you." She added: "Consider it a promise."

It was an act that could be performed in tenderness, as a seal of love, or in contempt, as a symbol of humiliation and conquest. It could be the act of a lover or teh act of a soldier violating an enemy woman. He did it as an act of scorn. Not as love, but as defilement? And this made her lie still and submit. One gesture of tenderness from him - - and she would have remained cold, untouched by the thing done to her body. But the act of a master taking shameful, contemptuous possession of her was the kind of rapture she had wanted.

Integrity is the ability to stand by an idea.

Have you seen how your best friends love everything about you -- except the things taht count? and your most importnat is nothign to them, nothing, not even a sound they can recognize.

The statute of a naked woman. if you understand the building, you understand what the figure must be. The human spirit. The heroic in man. The aspiration and the fulfullment, both. uplifted in its quest -- and uplifting by its own essence. Seeking God -- and findging yourself.

"I love you, Dominique. As selfishly as the fact that I exist. As selfishly as my lungs breathe aire. I breathe for my own necessity, for the fuel of my body, for my survival. I've given you, not my sacrifice or my pity, but my ego and my naked need. This is the only way you can wish to be loved. This is the only way I can want you love me. If you married me now, I would become your whole existence. But I would not want you then. You would not want yourself -- and so you would not love me long. To say 'I love you' one must know first how to say 'I,' The kind of surrender I could have from you now would give me nothing but an empty hulk. If I demanded it, I'd destroy you."

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Actualized обратиться по имени Вторник, 03 Августа 2004 г. 23:15 (ссылка)

in their essence they are not as much quotes as something I want to retain.

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Alpine обратиться по имени Вторник, 03 Августа 2004 г. 23:20 (ссылка)

Oh I see you put out his infamous court speech... I liked D.'s speech as well....

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Alpine обратиться по имени Вторник, 03 Августа 2004 г. 23:29 (ссылка)

you know what doesn't cease to bother me?.... Roark's need to love D. as the only need he's got besides expresing himself through buildings...

He's the end in himself. He doesn't think of people like ET because he doesn't deem worthy to give them any food for thought, for him, they are second-hand entities, parasites. He praises self-sufficiency, self-motivation and, as a logical outcome, the creation of the self. Such, all he needs is his mind, and creativity. If he doesn't possess a skill, he'll find it and use it (e.g. Steven Mallory). At the same time, he needs D. He needs to love her. What does he hope to get from her? Nothing at all. Why then does he need her? Does he need her?

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Alpine обратиться по имени Вторник, 03 Августа 2004 г. 23:41 (ссылка)

in his letting her be with PT and GW, doesn't he show his altruism, at least to some extent? D. says, if he ordered her to stay with him instead PT, she'd obeyed. But he had not asked her. That I understand -- it should have come from her. She wouldn't have found and satisfied her desire for self-contempt if she stayed with him; he would have gotten the rotten deal, "the hulk." The second time they met at similar circumstances (on the way to Reno), the words were different, but the conveyed essentially the same meaning -- he wouldn't be happy if she had given up for him.

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Alpine обратиться по имени Вторник, 03 Августа 2004 г. 23:43 (ссылка)

Исходное сообщение celibacy
in their essence they are not as much quotes as something I want to retain.

I know... But here's a paradox: The book is all about NOT accepting the opinions of others, but to create andlive by your own... in your desire to retain what the book says and live by it in any sense you actually conradict to the very idea of being the fountainhead of your own self :)

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Actualized обратиться по имени Среда, 04 Августа 2004 г. 18:26 (ссылка)

Исходное сообщение Alpine
Oh I see you put out his infamous court speech... I liked D.'s speech as well....

I liked it too. But it's not what I want to remember about the character.

On the other hand, I've put (I mean intended to put) the whole speech of HR for the sake of the last line, which was intended to be there. I didn't notice until now that the post has been cut due to its length. So, I posted the whole speech with the appropriate ending as a separate post.

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Alpine обратиться по имени Среда, 04 Августа 2004 г. 18:56 (ссылка)

[i]I liked it too. But it's not what I want to remember about the character.
[\quote]

What woudl you like to remember?

[quote]I didn't notice until now that the post has been cut due to its length

Nobody counted on us talking about The Fountainhead :)

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Alpine обратиться по имени Среда, 04 Августа 2004 г. 19:18 (ссылка)

why did you close both of Fountainhead entries?

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Actualized обратиться по имени Среда, 04 Августа 2004 г. 19:57 (ссылка)

Исходное сообщение Alpine
you know what doesn't cease to bother me?.... Roark's need to love D. as the only need he's got besides expresing himself through buildings...

He's the end in himself. He doesn't think of people like ET because he doesn't deem worthy to give them any food for thought, for him, they are second-hand entities, parasites. He praises self-sufficiency, self-motivation and, as a logical outcome, the creation of the self. Such, all he needs is his mind, and creativity. If he doesn't possess a skill, he'll find it and use it (e.g. Steven Mallory). At the same time, he needs D. He needs to love her. What does he hope to get from her? Nothing at all. Why then does he need her? Does he need her?

No, he doesn't.

"The man who attempts to live for others is a dependent. He is a parasite in motive and makes parasites of those he serve. "
"The egoist in the absolute sense is not the man who sacrifices others. He is the man who stands above the need of using others in any manner. He does not function through them. He is not concerned with them in any primary matter. Not in his aim, not in his motive, not in his thinking, not in his desires, not in the source of his energy. He does not exist for any other man--and he asks no man to exist for him."

Either 'to love' means to achieve a state when the object of your love is no more than an empty space, for you can neither give to nor take anything from an empty space. Or by admitting some other kind of relationship possible between Roark and Dominique, Rand failed her own philosophy.

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Actualized обратиться по имени Среда, 04 Августа 2004 г. 20:11 (ссылка)

Исходное сообщение Alpine
in his letting her be with PT and GW, doesn't he show his altruism, at least to some extent? D. says, if he ordered her to stay with him instead PT, she'd obeyed. But he had not asked her. That I understand -- it should have come from her. She wouldn't have found and satisfied her desire for self-contempt if she stayed with him; he would have gotten the rotten deal, "the hulk." The second time they met at similar circumstances (on the way to Reno), the words were different, but the conveyed essentially the same meaning -- he wouldn't be happy if she had given up for him.

He wants to be neither a slave nor a slaver.

But she loves him in a trully human sense. She says that she would exist only for him even not being able to see him. He knows if she stays she will be living for him. But he doesn't need it. His ego wouldn't let him take anything from another human being.

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Alpine обратиться по имени Среда, 04 Августа 2004 г. 20:13 (ссылка)

[i]Why then does he need her? Does he need her?

No, he doesn't.

"...He is the man who stands above the need of using others in any manner."

I don't suppose you mean "to love is to use."

"..He does not function through them. He is not concerned with them in any primary matter. Not in his aim, not in his motive, not in his thinking, not in his desires, not in the source of his energy. He does not exist for any other man--and he asks no man to exist for him."

Why did he then say he loved her? What did he mean then?

Either 'to love' means to achieve a state when the object of your love is no more than an empty space,

That would be "to notice" :)

Or by admitting some other kind of relationship possible between Roark and Dominique, Rand failed her own philosophy.

I think the love for R. is another form of creativity. He expresses his mind through his love for D. He doesn't need her, he needs to love her. That's why, IMHO, he's "ok" with her being with PK and GW... Any thoughts?

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Actualized обратиться по имени Среда, 04 Августа 2004 г. 20:14 (ссылка)

Исходное сообщение Alpine

Исходное сообщение celibacy
in their essence they are not as much quotes as something I want to retain.

I know... But here's a paradox: The book is all about NOT accepting the opinions of others, but to create andlive by your own... in your desire to retain what the book says and live by it in any sense you actually conradict to the very idea of being the fountainhead of your own self :)

I would never want to be a true fountainhead.

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Alpine обратиться по имени Среда, 04 Августа 2004 г. 20:19 (ссылка)

I would never want to be a true fountainhead.

Would it make you vulnerable and mitigate (hide? make an excuse) the inevitable second-handedness in you?

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Actualized обратиться по имени Среда, 04 Августа 2004 г. 20:29 (ссылка)

It would make me abandon the person I love.

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Actualized обратиться по имени Среда, 04 Августа 2004 г. 20:31 (ссылка)

Исходное сообщение Alpine
why did you close both of Fountainhead entries?

just felt like that.

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Actualized обратиться по имени Среда, 04 Августа 2004 г. 20:40 (ссылка)

Исходное сообщение Alpine

I think the love for R. is another form of creativity. He expresses his mind through his love for D. He doesn't need her, he needs to love her. That's why, IMHO, he's "ok" with her being with PK and GW... Any thoughts?

"Howard, have you ever been in love?"
Roark turned to look straight at him and answer quietly:
"I still am."
"But when you walk through a building, what you feel is greater than that?"
"Much greater, Gail."

Oh, yes, he LOVES his buildings. Only the thought of them being erected is not enough. He needs to see them being built, he needs to see the final product. He loves them as the beginning and the end in himself.
Why, then, the thought of loving a woman should be enough?

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Alpine обратиться по имени Среда, 04 Августа 2004 г. 22:04 (ссылка)

Исходное сообщение celibacy
It would make me abandon the person I love.

Because you won't need that person, or because you won't love that person?

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Alpine обратиться по имени Среда, 04 Августа 2004 г. 22:08 (ссылка)

Исходное сообщение celibacy

Исходное сообщение Alpine

I think the love for R. is another form of creativity. He expresses his mind through his love for D. He doesn't need her, he needs to love her. That's why, IMHO, he's "ok" with her being with PK and GW... Any thoughts?

"Howard, have you ever been in love?"
Roark turned to look straight at him and answer quietly:
"I still am."
"But when you walk through a building, what you feel is greater than that?"
"Much greater, Gail."

Oh, yes, he LOVES his buildings. Only the thought of them being erected is not enough. He needs to see them being built, he needs to see the final product. He loves them as the beginning and the end in himself.

Why, then, the thought of loving a woman should be enough?

It shouldn't. He doesn't love her for what she can give him. He loves her for nothing. He loves her existentially.

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Alpine обратиться по имени Среда, 04 Августа 2004 г. 22:09 (ссылка)

Исходное сообщение celibacy

Исходное сообщение Alpine
why did you close both of Fountainhead entries?

just felt like that.

Good call :)

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Actualized обратиться по имени Четверг, 05 Августа 2004 г. 22:56 (ссылка)

Исходное сообщение Alpine

It shouldn't. He doesn't love her for what she can give him. He loves her for nothing. He loves her existentially.

One cannot love somebody for nothing. One may not realize? though, WHY they love somebody.

To love somebody and to love the idea of feeling love is not the same.

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Alpine обратиться по имени Четверг, 05 Августа 2004 г. 23:31 (ссылка)

[i]One cannot love somebody for nothing.

Loving for something (opposite to loving something or someone) is to be dependent, to be served by the quality or possession you're attracted to .

To love somebody and to love the idea of feeling love is not the same.

GW:
"The love is reverence, and worship, and glory, and the upward glance. Not a bandage for dirty sores...They make some sort of feeble stew out of sympathy, compassion, contempt and general indifference, and they call it love."

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Actualized обратиться по имени Понедельник, 20 Июня 2005 г. 22:30 (ссылка)

Исходное сообщение Alpine

I think the love for R. is another form of creativity. He expresses his mind through his love for D. He doesn't need her, he needs to love her.

that my dear is GW : )

"I love you, Domonique. I love you so much that nothing can matter to me - not even you. Can you understand that? Only my love - not your answer. Not even your indifference. I've never really wanted anything. Not in the total, undivided way, not with the kind of desire that becomes an ultimatum, 'yes' or 'no', and one can't accept the 'no' without ceasing to exist. That's what you are to me. But when one reaches that stage, it's not the object that matters, it's the desire. "

Ответить С цитатой В цитатник

Комментировать

« Пред. запись — К дневнику — След. запись »

Страницы: [1] [Новые]

LiveInternet

О проекте